BOTS at BoDog Poker!?!? Is there any safe place to play anymore?

[Wes Fisher]

I seem to recall a recent & rather lengthy article from another Cappers Mall member who spotted Bots playing at a poker site. I don't recall which, but I know it wasn't BoDog. I never thought I would ever even be able to spot a Bot if I played against one & I don't have lengthy specific hands & gameplay to discuss here, but what I saw was pretty obvious nonetheless.

I have been playing poker for a longtime & have been logging some solid hours recently at BoDog Poker, playing mostly $50 Cash games & $8-$16 Sit-N-Gos. Two days ago, I was rolling through a Single Table Sit-N-Go, having personally eliminated all but one of the 1st seven to bite the dust. I was among the final 3 & had a commanding $10K+ chipstack with 2 other players (around $2K each) who seemed content to just sit & wait while others knocked each other out. In fact, I rarely remember seeing either play at all. Anyway, I got knocked out in 3rd place & I will wait to mention how I got knocked out at the end of this post so as not to confuse reality with speculation.

So, I am knocked out in 3rd & I wish 'GL' to the 2 remaining players & leave the table. I browsed the BoDog site for about 5 minutes & decided to call it a nite, but when I went to close the software, I got a message saying that I was still seated at the previous tourney table (BoDog does this sometimes). I decided to revisit the table to see how they were doing & what I saw left me stunned. To give you an idea, please take a moment to read the following sentence ...

Bet, Raise, Call, Flop, Check, Check, Bet, Raise, Fold, Bet, Raise, Fold

... what you read above is not an accurate description of game play, because I could not actually FOLLOW gameplay. The reason is because it was going on TOO FAST. At the same speed in which you read the line above, gameplay was going on between the final 2 players at this table. I watched poker played at Hyper-Speed for about 5 minutes (keep in mind I was gone 5 minutes too before returning to the table, so we are talking about 10 minutes total).

I was stunned. There was no thinking being done at all. Not a single hand. Every decision was made before the timer bar even made it 1 tic. No talking, no pausing in order to 'sell' a hand. I didn't notice before when playing because I was taking the time to think myself, so gameplay didn't look questionable to me, but it was quite apparent now ... I was watching 2 Bots PLAYING EACH OTHER. I know there are people out there who play speed chess, so perhaps they were just playing speed poker? Once again, everytime I saw a flop, I could barely take in the 3 cards that were just dealt before 3-4 bets, checks or folds had taken place.

So anyway, I called BoDog's Poker Dept. & I told the rep that I didn't think the final 2 players were real people. He went to the table (with me still watching while on the phone) & we both watched this high-speed poker continue for another 2-3 minutes before it finally ended. The Rep told me that he did indeed see the same thing I saw & that the response time of every play was less than 1 second. He told me he would immediately turn this over to the Security Dept & they would review every hand to look for suspicious play, response times, etc.

I was told that if the members were found in violation, they would have their accounts frozen & funds would be redistributed appropriately & that I may still receive the 1st place prize $ for that tourney. I was also told that I would likely only hear back from the Security Dept if they were found in violation, but so far I haven't heard anything, but then again it was just 2 days ago & I imagine they may need time to investigate.

I will post any updates or replies as I learn of them, but I have always suspected that online poker is not 100% reliable & now I wonder if I'll even continue playing? Why bother if the game is rigged? Anyway, that's another topic entirely.

Thanks for the time & be careful out there.

Wes F.

P.S.- Oh yes, I almost forgot. The User Names of the 2 Bots were Rudy457 & CMP in case you play there & want to keep an eye out. I can't help but wonder if CMP is someone's ego run amok & that they are basically flaunting an abbreviation for COMPUTER in front of all unsuspecting victims?

[Wes Fisher]

This followup amounts to nothing more concrete than a Conspiracy Theory, so please do not confuse it with actual events that took place in my post above ...

If you recall, I mentioned that I had a commanding 4-to-1 Chip lead among the final 3 players at the table above. I had some pretty incredible hands that led to my elimination & while reporting the Bots to BoDog, I asked the guy if there was any way that Bots could actually manipulate gameplay? I knew the answer myself & was asssured that it wasn't possible. Now, we have all taken bad beats & I know it's a part of the game, but for just 1 moment let me just ask this 1 question ...

"What if the Bots belong to the Poker site?"

I know this is a stretch & that we all trust BoDog, but in general theory, what if there were Bots created by the site? Couldn't they then be released into the system to add to profits? & since they were created by the site, wouldn't they be able to know the cards before they were dealt? or work with the system to deal certain cards?

You have to forgive me for this sudden burst of distrust on my part, but the more I think about playing against 2 Bots in a single table, the more distrust I have. And the hands I played which led to my elimination don't compel me to think otherwise. In my last 3-4 hands at this table, I was dealt 3 monster hands which resulted in each case with an All-In bet vs one of the Bots. I was dominant in all 3 hands at the time of the All-In bets, but lost ALL 3 HANDS on the river ...

Hand 1: I was dealt AK & after a significant preflop raise by one of the Bots, I reraised All-In & was called by A6 offsuit. The Bot was dealt the gutshot card needed to hit a 6-high straight on the RIVER.

Hand 2: I hit a straight by the turn & after reraising AI, was called by Bot with 2 pair, which became FH on the river.

Hand 3: I went from $10K to $8K to $3K in the 2 hands above & very next hand, I was dealt pocket Aces. I typed "I Quit" as I went All-In, hoping to get a call from someone thinking I had gone on Tilt. Same Bot called me again with pocket 9s & after getting no help for either player through the turn, the river was a third 9 to eliminate me.

I am not makinmg this stuff up folks. Like I said, bad beats come to all of us ... I know that ... but 3 in a row? against Bots?

It has to make you think ... I know the Bots can only play under certain perameters & they can't know the cards that are about to be dealt ... but what if the Bots were part of the site? couldn't they then know the deck? or even manipulate the cards? what then?

Like I said, ... Conspiracy Theory ... maybe not ... I'm not so sure anymore.

[T100]

I spotted a bot at absolute poker about a yr and a half ago and started to bitch and complain about it on the chat during the tourny. some players started to pay attention to the seat and bitch as well.

strange thing is I havent been able to log-in with the site since that day. hmmm???

[david5021]

if this is true, these bots suck!! cause im destroying all of them on BoDog poker, i have taken some very bad beats on that site, but i cant say that i havent given my fair share of them out

[Wes Fisher]

Originally Posted by david5021

if this is true, these bots suck!! cause im destroying all of them on BoDog poker, i have taken some very bad beats on that site, but i cant say that i havent given my fair share of them out

I'm not implying EVERYONE is a Bot. In fact, I might have never spotted it at all if they didn't go up against each other in the finals & play at such a high rate of speed. Also, I doubt you have played against one that SUCKED. Chances are more likely you've never played one at all.

I had hoped you would not confuse bad beats with my main point, which is that Bots exist at BoDog & despite my effort to seperate my 2 comments, you've done just that anyway ...

FACT: Bots exist at BoDog.

THEORY: it is possible that Bots could know the cards or manipulate the deck, but ONLY if they belong to the website where you are playing. In any other scenario, there is no way a Bot could be responsible for your bad beats.

[DosBullets]

Wes...I do think your are absolutely right on about bots on Bodog!! and other sites for that matter. The unnervy part is that I'm sure its the sites bots.
Let me give a scenerio....I too have played extensively on bodog, especially sit n gos. I mean I've been there since they opened. Recently in the last four months....I have witnessed...some strange things. I not talking bad beats...every good player knows he will suffer more bad beats than give them...its an inherit part of the game. But, when you are playing a bot...you feel it...its not some donk calling a reraise with 7-2 offsuit. Example just yesterday, playing a sit n go. Bot and I end up going head to head....came to to the realization it was a bot while playing..or the luckiest f... in the world!!!!
This is how bot got to heads up....A5 vs.AA Bot raises in mid position, opening action...ok so far...button reraises all in wih AA, bot calls , gets two fives and wins, doubles up in the second hand of the game. I figure, need to get in pots with this donkey, if this is his hand selection. I play tight and observe, others think he is a complete donk and challenge...only to find out he plays solid. We are now down to 6 players when A mid stack opens with 5X big blind bet(500)....bot raises 1,500, from out of position, player raises all in ....bot calls....player has KK...bot has 9 10 suited...bot wins str8 to the Queen!!! Five players left and this bot has more than half the chips!!!!
Review of bot's play so far....solid with the exception of those two plays...felt like it knew the cards coming out!!!! Finally get to heads up...this where I'm convinced it' s a bot that's being monitored. Oh yes it speaks for a little bit...defending its "donkey" moves, as others had challenge his play.
Now bot has 12,000 chips....i have 3K. We do battle for approx. 45 min. back and forth evening chip stack several times...when bot gets disconnected!!!
Or at least, I think so ..it gets timeout...folds some hands... comes back and plays hands fast I mean real fast!!!!!! It happens again.....I taunt him he is stalling or was he disconnected?....no answer. Now it seems he has left the table..or has he? I've played someone who has left the game many times and the software goes pretty quick, well it didn't here...it was like he was at the table but couldn't play......Had the bot fizzed out? ...a glich? My theory was the time factor...Was it set to be on this one table for a certain period of time? Why would it leave the game? If it was a person. Why would a solid player makes such "crazy" moves, like was done by this bot. Again, like it knew what cards were coming out.
Paranoid am I? Delusional? Let me tell you this....I play at that site at all hours......sometimes I monitor the sit n gos while i play cash games, or just monitor them while i 'm doing other things...I'm talking 6am/ 2am/ 7am
Low traffic time. One -three players can be waiting for a game...for an eternity....Soon as four or five players join in....presto!!!!! the game fills up. Where did the players come from? all of a sudden? Bots are on these sites..and at times more than one, to insure games get filled in sit n gos and cash games. The only place not really needed for bots, if you think about it, is in Mtts, no need, plenty of people joining in. Safest place to invest your money online. Hate it , Believe it , deny it....just my piece on a very interesting subject. Thanks Wes and please keep us informed. All the best as always...