Do you like to play Round Robins?

[Dr. Jack]

What are your thoughts on this subject?

For those who do not know what is a Round Robin, here is a description courtesy of WWTS.

Round robin betting is an interesting avenue for bettors of all unit sizes. It is a derivative of a parlay. To fully understand the mechanics of a round robin bet, the bettor must be first aware of what parlay betting is.

A parlay is the combination of a bettor selecting two or more wagering outcomes. All outcomes chosen must be realized for the parlay to be considered a winner. Should one outcome chosen doesn't materialize the entire parlay is considered a loss. In the event of a push, a 3-team parlay becomes a 2-team parlay. Should a second push occur, the parlay is then considered to be a straight bet.

Parlays aren't restricted to one particular sport. Different sports, point spreads, money line odds are all available options. Within this realm, side or total betting can be considered. Depending on whether a chosen outcome is a point spread selection or a money line selection changes the return odds of the parlay.

Based upon the above, round robin adds further options to parlay betting, more specifically a round robin is a way for a bettor to enter multiple parlays at one time. Assuming everything else is equal round robin bets allows bettors to select a minimum of three teams to a maximum of eight teams. The bettor can then choose to parlay, or tease the bets and combine them in parlays of two teams to a maximum of six teams.

For example, should a bettor choose Team A -7, Team B +3, and Team C pk. The bettor can parlay Teams A, B, and C into a three team parlay and further bet them in a round robin. The round robin wagers would be the various combinations of Team A, B, and C.

The first parlay would be the following:
Team A -7
Team B +3
Risk $X to Win $Y

The second parlay would be the following:
Team A -7
Team C pk
Risk $X to Win $Y

The third parlay would be the following:
Team B +3
Team C pk
Risk $X to Win $Y

When the round robin option is chosen, all standard parlay rules apply.

[skippy]

No because if you lose more than one game, there is a cascading effect to the amount of money you can lose.

In the 3 team example.....
If you get one game wrong, you may make a bit of money or break even.
If you get two games wrong, all 3 bets lose.

Therefore, if you just played the 3 game parlay, and if you miss any game, you only lose ONE bet.

If you are fortunate enough to cash that ticket, it would pay more than the 3 two game parlays collectively.

[Miklos]

[QUOTE=Dr. Jack]What are your thoughts on this subject?

I like playing round robins,especially if you feel real good about your 3 picks!
I usually play 2's&3's for a total of 4 bets.Usually when you hit 2 of the 3 then depending on the moneylines that you have that win you will usually end up either losing or winning a small amount but if you win all 3 then you win all 4 bets.I know that it sounds a bit greedy but remember what Gordon Gecko said in the movie "WALL STREET"----"Greed is good"---LOL

[Klazerman]

Only play 3 teams - 2 play RR- if you hit 2 of 3 - you win money. over 66%

with the higher ones the odds go down
example 4 teams - 2 RR parlay you need to hit 3 or better to make money. or over 75%.
Maybe play these 2-3 times a year in NFl and college FB
Klaze

[plus1]

I played some round robbin parlays about 2 years ago and didn't really come out with anything most of the time. I tend to stay away from all kinds of parlays anymore. Although I have hit my last 3 last week. I mainly do them just for fun bets really with my cousin to see how we do.

[Hoosiercatdaddy]

Trossi loves these damn things and got me on them for awhile. While nice when hit all of them, it sucks when you split in a day and lose your ass lol

[BigdaddyQH]

It is just another way to get players to pay more vig. You can drag this out forever. You can play a 3 team round robin and play individual wagers on each game only. It is a losing wager. The more teams involved in a parlay or round robin, athe bigger the vig grows. Straight bets cost you 11/10, or 10%. A two team parlay pays 13/5 instead of 15/5, or 13.3% a three team parlay pays 6 for 1 instead of 7 for 1, or 14.2%, etc....

[desimunda]

how about round robin with a bunch of underdogs...worked in hockey for me...when you need 2/5 to break even or something along those lines...

[Bobtheicon]

We used to play what my local called a "birdcage".
Its really a 3-way Action Reverse (which is a 3-way combination of IF plays). Pretty cool bet with a 9-1 payoff with only a 3.3x risk.
Better payout than a RR, but a bit more risky. It can get you out of a hole quick.

[dollarbills]

i usually play a 4-team RR each week during football season.........small play, mostly for fun, and to keep up the old days of parlay cards......

[uncfelix]

round robins are a real nice option to have imo. although i am sure that the percentages are lower than if you were to play the games individually, if you are low on funds or if you want to make a little more of a risky bet, there are some interesting options to include in these wagers. in the past, i've cleared 1000 bucks on a 40-50 RR with six teams or so. For this reason, I am specualting pinny capped their RR's at five. Ideally, what I like to do is focus on a dog on the ML to win that if it hits sets up the potential for a max payout. So for example, if i like the Jags to win this week (which I do), I might frame round robin with a smaller underdog on the ML (Minny) and three other spread wagers. Then I'll option whether to play 2*3*4*5 or 3*4*5 or 4*5. For arguments sake , I'll do the 3*4*5

Wager Type: Round Robin Selection Selection Detail 1 NFL Football
Jacksonville Jaguars 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Money Line for Game +255 2 NFL Football Jacksonville Jaguars/Indianapolis Colts 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Total Points UNDER 42 for Game -105
3 NFL Football
Miami Dolphins 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Spread -11 for Game -105
4 NFL Football Minnesota Vikings 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Money Line for Game +175
5 NFL Football Denver Broncos 24-September-2006 5:15 PM PST Spread +7 for Game -120
x 3's (10 wagers) 1x2x3 Risking 3.00 to Win 37.60 USD
1x2x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.18 USD
1x2x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 35.12 USD
1x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.18 USD
1x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 35.12 USD
1x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 50.69 USD
2x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 28.45 USD
2x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 17.96 USD
2x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 26.53 USD
3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 26.53 USD
x 4's (5 wagers)
1x2x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 108.64 USD
1x2x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 71.43 USD
1x2x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 101.83 USD
1x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 101.83 USD
2x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.65 USD
x 5's (1 wager)
1x2x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 201.67 USD (All 16 wagers)
Risking 48.00 to win a possible 1,006.41 USD

Now what we get is the following:

2 teams hit we lose, comparable to a 48 bet on a team that loses. We went 2 and three so that seems fair. If three teams win, the margin of payout is between 18 and 54 dollars, with most payoffs nearer the 18. Okay, so this in essence is at best a push and at worst a loss of half your wager. Of course, straight up you would have won some cash but altogether not that much, a one unit wager minus 10%. If four teams hit, and you play them straight, we are talking about a profit but its also pretty small. For five 10 dollar win bets, with Jax winning, you are essentially getting back 95 (45 in profit). If Jax loses, the profit for the others winning is 80 (30 profit). If Jax loses but the other four come in on the RR, the payoff is 54 (for the Four) plus all the three teamers not using the Jax win bet (1) which amounts to 97 bucks. In total, about 150 dollars total + 15 dollars from the bet itself. The highest payoff amounts to 173 for the 3 team parlays and 108 for the four team which equals 281 plus 15= 296 back for the 48 wagered. In essence if four teams win in this format, you are doubling or tripling your money from how it would have turned out if you had played them solo. Look

If Jax wins:
Four 10 win bets = 95 total from original 50 bet
RR= 296 from original 48 bet

If Jax loses, money is still doubled:
Four 10 win bets = 80 total from original bet
RR= 165 from original 48 bet

Of course, if all five plays hit, that's where the real money comes from. Now you are talking a grand from that 48 bucks versus 120 dollars for hitting all five teams with five separate 10 dollar wagers.

The other point I want to make is this. Taking Jax off the ML and giving them the points-then the max payoff drops from 1006 dollars to 587 dollars. To me this is a huge difference and again, the philosophy as I see it is that I am trying to maximize the ML numbers to my advantage in these bets. For one, if Jax loses, I can still make money or break even. I would not be able to do so if lets say I just chose to put 50 on Jax to win. Thus, in this respect, I am hedging too. The opportunity cost of course, is that if Jax wins and my other bets don't cover, I've screwed the pooch and I am an idiot. Believe me, its happened before, and this is by far the most disturbing part of bets like these. So make sure your other plays are equally strong. Sometimes, what I'll do if I can't find a play I like is to go with a sure fire favorite on the ML. Yeah the money numbers go down, but I still get the nice play off of the Jax +255 in combo with everything else.

RR's may seem like a gimmick, and they are if you are too lazy to bet the teams separate or have no plan going in. But like I said, I think they are an interesting option in cases where you want to try and maximize the sometimes generous ML dogs. Hope this was at least somewhat insightful.

[doddi]

I like these, but lay off them since I did my first few, when I realized it was a difficult proposition, except for certain situations (Klazerman's point about 2 out of 3 is a good one)

[Bobtheicon]

Originally Posted by uncfelix

round robins are a real nice option to have imo. although i am sure that the percentages are lower than if you were to play the games individually, if you are low on funds or if you want to make a little more of a risky bet, there are some interesting options to include in these wagers. in the past, i've cleared 1000 bucks on a 40-50 RR with six teams or so. For this reason, I am specualting pinny capped their RR's at five. Ideally, what I like to do is focus on a dog on the ML to win that if it hits sets up the potential for a max payout. So for example, if i like the Jags to win this week (which I do), I might frame round robin with a smaller underdog on the ML (Minny) and three other spread wagers. Then I'll option whether to play 2*3*4*5 or 3*4*5 or 4*5. For arguments sake , I'll do the 3*4*5

Wager Type: Round Robin Selection Selection Detail 1 NFL Football
Jacksonville Jaguars 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Money Line for Game +255 2 NFL Football Jacksonville Jaguars/Indianapolis Colts 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Total Points UNDER 42 for Game -105
3 NFL Football
Miami Dolphins 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Spread -11 for Game -105
4 NFL Football Minnesota Vikings 24-September-2006 10:00 AM PST Money Line for Game +175
5 NFL Football Denver Broncos 24-September-2006 5:15 PM PST Spread +7 for Game -120
x 3's (10 wagers) 1x2x3 Risking 3.00 to Win 37.60 USD
1x2x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.18 USD
1x2x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 35.12 USD
1x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.18 USD
1x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 35.12 USD
1x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 50.69 USD
2x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 28.45 USD
2x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 17.96 USD
2x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 26.53 USD
3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 26.53 USD
x 4's (5 wagers)
1x2x3x4 Risking 3.00 to Win 108.64 USD
1x2x3x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 71.43 USD
1x2x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 101.83 USD
1x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 101.83 USD
2x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 54.65 USD
x 5's (1 wager)
1x2x3x4x5 Risking 3.00 to Win 201.67 USD (All 16 wagers)
Risking 48.00 to win a possible 1,006.41 USD

Now what we get is the following:

2 teams hit we lose, comparable to a 48 bet on a team that loses. We went 2 and three so that seems fair. If three teams win, the margin of payout is between 18 and 54 dollars, with most payoffs nearer the 18. Okay, so this in essence is at best a push and at worst a loss of half your wager. Of course, straight up you would have won some cash but altogether not that much, a one unit wager minus 10%. If four teams hit, and you play them straight, we are talking about a profit but its also pretty small. For five 10 dollar win bets, with Jax winning, you are essentially getting back 95 (45 in profit). If Jax loses, the profit for the others winning is 80 (30 profit). If Jax loses but the other four come in on the RR, the payoff is 54 (for the Four) plus all the three teamers not using the Jax win bet (1) which amounts to 97 bucks. In total, about 150 dollars total + 15 dollars from the bet itself. The highest payoff amounts to 173 for the 3 team parlays and 108 for the four team which equals 281 plus 15= 296 back for the 48 wagered. In essence if four teams win in this format, you are doubling or tripling your money from how it would have turned out if you had played them solo. Look

If Jax wins:
Four 10 win bets = 95 total from original 50 bet
RR= 296 from original 48 bet

If Jax loses, money is still doubled:
Four 10 win bets = 80 total from original bet
RR= 165 from original 48 bet

Of course, if all five plays hit, that's where the real money comes from. Now you are talking a grand from that 48 bucks versus 120 dollars for hitting all five teams with five separate 10 dollar wagers.

The other point I want to make is this. Taking Jax off the ML and giving them the points-then the max payoff drops from 1006 dollars to 587 dollars. To me this is a huge difference and again, the philosophy as I see it is that I am trying to maximize the ML numbers to my advantage in these bets. For one, if Jax loses, I can still make money or break even. I would not be able to do so if lets say I just chose to put 50 on Jax to win. Thus, in this respect, I am hedging too. The opportunity cost of course, is that if Jax wins and my other bets don't cover, I've screwed the pooch and I am an idiot. Believe me, its happened before, and this is by far the most disturbing part of bets like these. So make sure your other plays are equally strong. Sometimes, what I'll do if I can't find a play I like is to go with a sure fire favorite on the ML. Yeah the money numbers go down, but I still get the nice play off of the Jax +255 in combo with everything else.

RR's may seem like a gimmick, and they are if you are too lazy to bet the teams separate or have no plan going in. But like I said, I think they are an interesting option in cases where you want to try and maximize the sometimes generous ML dogs. Hope this was at least somewhat insightful.

Good writeup unc... you sound like an exotic wager pro!! Good Luck!!