Hip-hop, a culture flops

[The Judge]

Idea of 'keeping it real' means acknowledging that black culture itself is in trouble
By THOMAS CHATTERTON WILLIAMS
The Washington Post

Over the past three decades black culture has grown so conflated with hip-hop culture that for most Americans under the age of 45, hip-hop culture is black culture. Except that it's not.

During the controversy over Don Imus' comments this spring, the radio host was pilloried for using the same sexist language that is condoned, if not celebrated, in hip-hop music and culture. As the scandal evolved, some critics, including the Rev. Al Sharpton and the NAACP, shifted their attention to the rap industry. Indeed, every couple of years, it seems, we ask ourselves: Is hip-hop poisonous? Is it misogynistic, violent and nihilistic? What kind of message is it sending?

But what critics consistently fail to emphasize in these sporadic storms of opprobrium, as most did during the Imus affair, is that the stakes transcend hip-hop: Black culture itself is in trouble.

Born in the projects of the South Bronx, tweaked to its gangsta form in the 'hoods of South Central Los Angeles and dumbed down unconscionably in the ghettos of the "Dirty South" (the original Confederate states, minus Missouri and Kentucky), there are no two ways about it — hip-hop culture is not black culture, it's black street culture. Despite 40 years of progress since the civil rights movement, in the hip-hop era — from the late 1970s onward — black America, uniquely, began receiving its values, aesthetic sensibility and self-image almost entirely from the street up.

This is a major departure for blacks, who traditionally saw cultivation as a key to equality. Think of the days when W.E.B. Du Bois "(sat) with Shakespeare" and moved "arm in arm with Balzac;" or when Ralph Ellison waxed universal and spoke of the need "to extend one's humanity and one's knowledge of human life."

The historian Paul Fussell notes that for most Americans, it is difficult to "class sink." Try to imagine the Chinese-American son of oncologists — living in, say, a New York suburb such as Westchester, attending private school — who feels subconsciously compelled to model his life, even if only perficially, on that of a Chinese mafioso dealing heroin on the Lower East Side. The cultural pressure for a middle-class Chinese-American to walk, talk and act like a lower-class thug from Chinatown is nil. The same can be said of Jews, or of any other ethnic group.

But in black America the folly is so commonplace it fails to attract serious attention. Like neurotics obsessed with amputating their own healthy limbs, middle-class blacks concerned with "keeping it real" are engaging in gratuitously self-destructive and violently masochistic behavior.

Sociologists have a term for this pathological facet of black life. It's called "cool-pose culture." Whatever the nomenclature, "cool pose" or keeping it real or something else entirely, this peculiar aspect of the contemporary black experience — the inverted-pyramid hierarchy of values stemming from the glorification of lower-class reality in the hip-hop era — has quietly taken the place of white racism as the most formidable obstacle to success and equality in the black middle classes.

As John H. McWhorter emphasizes in his book Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America, "40 years after the Civil Rights Act, African-American students on the average are the weakest in the United States, at all ages, in all subjects, and regardless of class level."

Reading and math proficiency test results consistently show this. Clearly, this nostalgie de la boue, this longing for the mud, exacts a hefty price.

A 2005 study by Roland G. Fryer of Harvard University crystallizes the point: While there is scarce dissimilarity in popularity levels among low-achieving students, black or white, Fryer finds that "when a student achieves a 2.5 GPA, clear differences start to emerge."

At 3.5 and above, black students "tend to have fewer and fewer friends," even as their high-achieving white peers "are at the top of the popularity pyramid."
With such pressure to be real, to not "act white," is it any wonder that the African-American high school graduation rate has stagnated at 70 percent for the past three decades?

Until black culture as a whole is effectively disentangled from the python-grip of hip-hop, and by extension the street, we are not going to see any real progress.

Thomas Chatterton Williams is a graduate student in the Cultural Reporting and Criticism program at New York University.

[Back Country]

First off how he pulled Shakespeare into the topic is beyond me.

At 3.5 and above, black students "tend to have fewer and fewer friends,"

What the hell kind of a study did roland g fryer of Harvard (o wow harvard, it must be legit...) put together? What a dumb ass. How many schools did he look at, what kinds of students, how many students... and the list goes on. Seriously, you can make statistics say anything, but this was not even statistical, its just bull sh*t. to say that information from that "study" 'crystallizes' any point is ridiculous.

But what critics consistently fail to emphasize in these sporadic storms of opprobrium, as most did during the Imus affair, is that the stakes transcend hip-hop: Black culture itself is in trouble.

'opprobrium', lmao Thomas. I like how disgrace would be too simple of a word for you when later in your article you talk about how black people cant read well... In general, If you actually believe that whoever your target audience is does not read well you may want to write in words that could be understood by people who dont read well you arrogant f*ck

Then he goes on to try and deflect some of the blame the nappy hair comment of a cocky old white guy stuck in the past (who i would be willing to bet is not much of a rap fan, just a guess) on hip hop? Bro, if any time a racist comment is said in any direction and you try and bring hip hop into the picture of blame you may want to draw a connection, otherwise you may as well be blaming hip hop for the war in Iraq.

A white guys says nappy and suddenly the African American culture is f*cked.

This is a major departure for blacks, who traditionally saw cultivation as a key to equality.

wow

The cultural pressure for a middle-class Chinese-American to walk, talk and act like a lower-class thug from Chinatown is nil.

chinese thugs... now thats some funny sh*t tom.

Like neurotics obsessed with amputating their own healthy limbs, middle-class blacks concerned with "keeping it real" are engaging in gratuitously self-destructive and violently masochistic behavior.

He is now comparing the way black people dress/talk/act/whatever to crazy people who cut off their arms. I didnt realize a hoody, a hat with a straight brim and slang were so damn detrimental.

Well done Tom. First say black culture and hip-hop are one in the same, then talk about a racist white guy, then use the back door approach to blame said racist white guys comments on hip hop (aka black culture), give a brief history, blame it on the streets (aka poor people), talk about 'great' white people and their ideas, compare the behaviors of black people to chinese thugs and people who should be institutionalized, blame lack of success on hip hop, say kids are dumb because of it, say the ones who arent 'influenced' by it are smart but dont have friends, shoot out stats that supposedly support (?????) your argument but do not provide the statistical data used to get the stats.

[Seanie Mac]

have alot of chiggas around here, wannabe chinese black people. the culture is probably changing because rappers such as kanye west have come along. and t.i. always rapping about polos. and the people who have been around, i.e. jay-z, nas, are grown ass men now.

the only thugs left are fake ones like 50 cent and the game, and than like dipset who talk about how much money they have and moving coke, but they sell like at best, juelz santana 800,000 cds lmao. and really, whats the last cam joint you liked lmao? ballin is played out, and thats the end of jim jones career.

[revnecro1273]

Originally Posted by Back Country

In general, If you actually believe that whoever your target audience is does not read well you may want to write in words that could be understood by people who dont read well you arrogant f*ck



.

i had to do a critique of one's master's thesis while i was in graduate school...i had the same argument as you pointed out...the woman's study was on discourse and how elitists who use big words basically don't allow for anybody but the educated to understand...i forget exactly what her study was doing, but one of the main points had to do with discourse...so at any rate, she ended up contradicting herself and using big words that she was so set against

[revnecro1273]

Originally Posted by Seanie Mac

have alot of chiggas around here, wannabe chinese black people. the culture is probably changing because rappers such as kanye west have come along. and t.i. always rapping about polos. and the people who have been around, i.e. jay-z, nas, are grown ass men now.

the only thugs left are fake ones like 50 cent and the game, and than like dipset who talk about how much money they have and moving coke, but they sell like at best, juelz santana 800,000 cds lmao. and really, whats the last cam joint you liked lmao? ballin is played out, and thats the end of jim jones career.

so you as a wigger, do you hang associate with the chiggas?

[Seanie Mac]

no i dont associate with ur kind wonton

[revnecro1273]

Originally Posted by Seanie Mac

no i dont associate with ur kind wonton

neither do i...i am euro...just live in korea because the money is great and i work less than 20 hrs a week..i generally only hang with whities

[jonnyblaze]

I thought the article Judge posted, while not entirely correct, is mostly accurate.

this line is on point and sums up a lot:

the inverted-pyramid hierarchy of values stemming from the glorification of lower-class reality in the hip-hop era — has quietly taken the place of white racism as the most formidable obstacle to success and equality in the black middle classes.

Very true ^.

We all know racism exist and, news flash, will always exist. So will sexism, anti-semitism, homophobia, but there is enough opportuniy for blacks to take control of their own lives and make it. However its the attitude that somehow being a anti-culture slacker who would rather attempt to earn a lving as a criminal or rapper is better than working is all over our youth. Its sad.

the inverted-pyramid hierarchy of values stemming from the glorification of lower-class reality in the hip-hop era — has quietly taken the place of white racism as the most formidable obstacle to success and equality in the black middle classes.

i found this on point as well.

[Back Country]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

We all know racism exist and, news flash, will always exist. So will sexism, anti-semitism, homophobia, but there is enough opportuniy for blacks to take control of their own lives and make it. However its the attitude that somehow being a anti-culture slacker who would rather attempt to earn a lving as a criminal or rapper is better than working is all over our youth. Its sad.

Not sad. If your stuck in a sh*t hole of a lifestyle things change. Hell, id rather be a raper then have a real job. How is this any different then white kids wanting to grow up and be rock stars rather then having a real job? No different then wanting to be a pro athlete either. If rap is a way out they should not be criticized for taking it. As for crime, it has always existed, durring prohibition it was run by white people who would rather do crime then have a real job, I dont see the difference. There is still a mafia and organized crime all over, is tom going to blame all that on rap as well?

As for your last comment about youth, when rock n roll first came out 'grown ups' were saying the same things about it as they are about rap now. Seems to have turned out just fine for the vast majority, dont you think?

[uva3021]

Originally Posted by Back Country

Hell, id rather be a raper then have a real job.

[Romanowski]

one thing is for sure don imus is black americas #1 enemy and its not rap at all

[jonnyblaze]

Originally Posted by Back Country

Not sad. If your stuck in a sh*t hole of a lifestyle things change. Hell, id rather be a raper then have a real job. How is this any different then white kids wanting to grow up and be rock stars rather then having a real job? No different then wanting to be a pro athlete either. If rap is a way out they should not be criticized for taking it. As for crime, it has always existed, durring prohibition it was run by white people who would rather do crime then have a real job, I dont see the difference. There is still a mafia and organized crime all over, is tom going to blame all that on rap as well?

As for your last comment about youth, when rock n roll first came out 'grown ups' were saying the same things about it as they are about rap now. Seems to have turned out just fine for the vast majority, dont you think?

Disagree with all of this uneducated mumbo jumbo. your anaolgies are way off, so is your premise.

Hell, id rather be a raper then have a real job.

this speaks for itself...gl wit that.

How is this any different then white kids wanting to grow up and be rock stars rather then having a real job? No different then wanting to be a pro athlete either

so different i cant even explain in a post. But quickly, the ratio of young blacks wanting to be rap stars as compared to whites wanting to be rock starts is so disproportionate that the analogy makes no sense. Never has rock music been a drain on white society as compared to rap is to blacks. Addiotnally, the overt negative messages in rap is incomparable to any other type of music. Dont forget the authors point: when whites do not achive in music (or sports) they often have considerable options to make it in life, where blacks often do not. In fact, many "living the life" in the music, leaving them convicted felons, single parents and un-educated when they realize their music career will never happen.

There is still a mafia and organized crime all over, is tom going to blame all that on rap as well?

If you think that organized crime in white culture is comarable to the plagues of black culture than you are may more misinformed than I originally thought. This statement is off-the-chart with stupidity

[jonnyblaze]

As for your last comment about youth, when rock n roll first came out 'grown ups' were saying the same things about it as they are about rap now. Seems to have turned out just fine for the vast majority, dont you think?

Another uninformed statement. First of all, the author is writing this article NOW, not when hip-hop "first cam out". That was 30 years ago. And the authors point is, if you read the dam article, that 30 years later the art is a negative drag on black culture, something not thought of about rock and roll 30 years later....or even 3 years later.

So to be frank, you're wrong. gl

[Back Country]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

so different i cant even explain in a post. But quickly, the ratio of young blacks wanting to be rap stars as compared to whites wanting to be rock starts is so disproportionate that the analogy makes no sense. Never has rock music been a drain on white society as compared to rap is to blacks. Addiotnally, the overt negative messages in rap is incomparable to any other type of music. Dont forget the authors point: when whites do not achive in music (or sports) they often have considerable options to make it in life, where blacks often do not. In fact, many "living the life" in the music, leaving them convicted felons, single parents and un-educated when they realize their music career will never happen.

If you think that organized crime in white culture is comarable to the plagues of black culture than you are may more misinformed than I originally thought. This statement is off-the-chart with stupidity

Plagues of black culture? What the hell is wrong with you?

So different you cant even explain huh? Well thats not saying much, after reading what your wrote it is beyond apparent there is not much you can explain.

the ratio of young blacks wanting to be rap stars as compared to whites wanting to be rock starts is so disproportionate that the analogy makes no sense

Im sorry bro i missed the point where you listed the statistics for this... are you a kid? you hang out with kids or something, am i talking to mj or r kelley? You supported this even worse then the moron who said smart black kids have no friends because of hip hop, damn, i didnt even think that would be possible. Your true inability to put together a valid argument blows me away.

Never has rock music been a drain on white society as compared to rap is to blacks

again, prove it. jesus. you realy think just because you say something i am going to believe it, or anyone else for that matter? There have been kids that have killed themselves with punk/rock music playing on replay. You trying to say ozzy osbourne is a better inlfuence for kids then Common? You even know who common is?

Addiotnally, the overt negative messages in rap is incomparable to any other type of music

there is religous rap, soul rap and a ton of rappers that focus on positive aspects of black culture and life in general. Look it up stat master

In fact, many "living the life" in the music, leaving them convicted felons, single parents and un-educated when they realize their music career will never happen.

you honestly think this has never occured before due to other music focusing on drugs, crime, gambling or whatever? People live the life they chose to live, with music or without it. Single parents? Rap music causes kids/people to have un protected sex now?

If you think that organized crime in white culture is comarable to the plagues of black culture than you are may more misinformed than I originally thought. This statement is off-the-chart with stupidity

Lmao, this is one of the best parts champ. Im misinformed huh? You may want to provide some supporting arguments. The entire time you just spit sh*t out and never supported anything, who the hell taught you write? Sh*t, you got left behind in the slow class didnt you

The better question would be how is it any different other then the scale it is on? Organized crime sells drugs, utilizes gambling and kills people. Gangs do the same on a smaller scale. Someone here is no doubt stupid, but its not me. Probably take you about an hour to figure that out. Good news is i cant call you misinformed because it is crystal clear you have never been informed at all. Smarten up champ, then get back to me.

[Back Country]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

Another uninformed statement. First of all, the author is writing this article NOW, not when hip-hop "first cam out". That was 30 years ago. And the authors point is, if you read the dam article, that 30 years later the art is a negative drag on black culture, something not thought of about rock and roll 30 years later....or even 3 years later.

So to be frank, you're wrong. gl

People were saying the same things about rock when it first came out and when it was evolving, so yes, 3 years later.

There is positive rap that is not a 'negative drag on black culture', what are you bass fishing with a mushroom anchor? negative drag. lmao. There some sort of positive drag no one has ever herd of other then smokers?

You may want to stick to being frank. Even though you are wrong when you do, you dont come off as such a huge moron, instead you come off as an average one. Try and blend JB, you will thank me later.