No Offense, But Why Doesn't Jack or Any Mod Give Us a Heads Up Closing Books?

[jonnyblaze]

This is the second time I have gotten blind sided by a book that was a CM sponsor.

Im not trying to challenge you Jack, but you're making money off these banners, promoting these books. I know your a good man, so I am going to assume you had no knowledge these issues were coming.

But I would think that you could try to get some sort of assuarances from these guys, go demand a notice period so you could tell us. In the alternative, why dont you have some sort of guarantee for CM clients? I know I heard in this forum how f*ing great and how are Pinny was forever.

Im just pissed cause I have have heard about how much stronger the offshore was supposed to be this year, and now THE best book is no longer taking US action. What guarantees can you give your "SportsBook of the Year" Bet JM isnt going south too?

[Dr. Jack]

Pinnacle was a popular reduced book that we had to offer because everyone recommended them. They are not stealing anyone's money and people are able to withdraw. The only issue is them not taking your business but they are not taking your money and running (big difference)

I am not disputing that I have suggested Pinnacle as an option but clearly the book I push more than not are Bet Jamaica, BetCris, and The Greek. These are the 3 books that I have a direct contact with and speak to on a daily basis.

I have assurances from Bet Jamaica that they are not going anywhere

WWTS was a different situation and obviously them not paying was the MAJOR problem but Bodog bailed them out and I assisted with anything I could. I believe everyone got the money

Pinnacle is the one book that is suggested by the average player more than anyone else but their background was less known than some who have been around forever.

They have decided not to fight but I think there is a difference of not fighting and stealing money which apparently they are not doing.

Out of all the books we have as sponsors - we have pushed and sent 75% more people to Bet Jamaica then Pinnacle. When I was saying Bet Jamaica was #1 sportsbook in 2006 - some of you critcized. The question was why not Pinnacle? It's hard to argue that Pinnacle was not a great book but I just don't have the same type of contact with Pinnacle as I do with a Bet Jamaica or even Greek or BetCris.

I will also add that I did give an early warning about WWTS. Some in this forum were able to take advantage of this before the news or the shit hit the fan.

Obviously I had no idea this was going to happen but I also don't have the same type of contact with Pinny as I do some others. To be fair, I have stated this before

Tell me what kind of assurances would you like to see? If it can be done - I will do it

[jonnyblaze]

I call Bullshit on you here Jack.

Your a real cool dude and run a informative, fun forum.

You have yet to admit, in the last year of true transition, that it appears that internet gaming in going in the wrong direction, big time.

Everytime something major like this happens, you, Judge and your merry men act like its some isolated incident tand so long as we use "good books" we have nothing to worry about.

However, havent "good, repuatable books" that you have promoted and vouched for closed? And didnt at least two of those hold their clients funds for significant amounts of time?

Why not be honest here Jack: The future of internet gaming in America is in huge danger, from a financial and legal standpoint. Im sure there will be a slew of articles and "inside information" from the books still left about how everything is fine, they are not going anywhere, money is safe, Congress has no basis to keep going ect, ect, ect...

But if Pinny can go, anyone can go. Admit it.

Further, Congress wasnt just doing shit "for the elections." Maybe some havent noticed but gambling on sports is illegal in the US, except for Nevada. Why would you think Congress wouldnt keep attempting to enforce this longstanding law?

Twice since this has happened I have seen you attempt to funnel posters into your other sponsors.

Perhaps saying "Guys, dont do shit with your money until I can get some REAL (not "they said they are fine" which has not worked in the past) assurances for your members. Is it possible that a real recommedation MAY be that it has been proven that it is not safe to keep money on line during this time of transition?

Sorry J, I know you make your living off this shit, but you owe it to the Mall to tell both sides of the story, or at least a realistic version of the true story.

[Romanowski]

Sorry Johnny but I must stick up for Jack here

I have seen lies, deceit all over the (supposed watchdog) offshore gateways or forums for years. Real shady characters

I have seen forum owners purposely schill for a book they damn well knew had negative cashflow.

Jack is plain as day not like that

if you look around the Pinnacle thing was a surprise to everybody

Jack did you know about this before anyone else?

I see around 4am eastern the first report of it today

Obviously this sucks.

who offers what Pinnacle does? where will other shops hedge this kind of volume?

[mrwho]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

I call Bullshit on you here Jack.

Your a real cool dude and run a informative, fun forum.

You have yet to admit, in the last year of true transition, that it appears that internet gaming in going in the wrong direction, big time.

Everytime something major like this happens, you, Judge and your merry men act like its some isolated incident that has and so long as we use "good books" we have nothing to worry about.

However, havent "good, repuatable books" that you have promoted and vouched for close? And didnt at least two of those hold their clients funds for significant amounts of time?

Why not be honest here Jack: The future of internet gaming in America is in huge danger, from a financial and legal standpoint. Im sure there will be a slew of articles and "inside information" from the books still left about how everything is fine, they are not going anywhere, money is safe, Congress has no basis to keep going ect, ect, ect...

But if Pinny can go, anyone can go. Admit it.

Further, Congress wasnt just doing shit "for the elections." Maybe some havent noticed but gambling on sports is illegal in the US, except for Nevada. Why would you think Congress wouldnt keep attempting to enforce this longstanding law?

Twice since this has happened I have seen you attempt to funnel posters into your other sponsors.

Perhaps saying "Guys, dont do shit with your money until I can get some REAL (not "they said they are fine" which has not worked in the past) assurances for your members. Is it possible that a real recommedation MAY be that it has been proven that it is not safe to keep money on line during this time of transition?

Sorry J, I know you make your living off this shit, but you owe it to the Mall to tell both sides of the story, or at least a realistic version of the true story.

i agree with you here, looks like the beginning of the end for sure..before i had the reassurance that pinnacle would last through it all but it now that they're gone it doesnt look good.

[alby]

I realize pinny is gonna pay up but I don't like the direction this shit is going.

Hard enough to beat the vig let alone some book runnin off with your loot.

not worth it anymore to me.

its been a pleasure meeting all you fine fellas......I'm gonna go find a new hobby now.

[jonnyblaze]

Originally Posted by Romanowski

Sorry Johnny but I must stick up for Jack here

I have seen lies, deceit all over the (supposed watchdog) offshore gateways or forums for years. Real shady characters

I have seen forum owners purposely schill for a book they damn well knew had negative cashflow.

Jack is plain as day not like that

if you look around the Pinnacle thing was a surprise to everybody

Jack did you know about this before anyone else?

I see around 4am eastern the first report of it today

Obviously this sucks.

who offers what Pinnacle does? where will other shops hedge this kind of volume?

Rome I agree with all of this , jack is a good man form what I can tell. I never said Jack should of warned us, just wonering why he cannot get the info, and if he cant, how does he reconcile the fact that books he promotes are closing....and his response is to promote the books here even harder?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

I call Bullshit on you here Jack.

Your a real cool dude and run a informative, fun forum.

You have yet to admit, in the last year of true transition, that it appears that internet gaming in going in the wrong direction, big time.

Everytime something major like this happens, you, Judge and your merry men act like its some isolated incident tand so long as we use "good books" we have nothing to worry about.

However, havent "good, repuatable books" that you have promoted and vouched for closed? And didnt at least two of those hold their clients funds for significant amounts of time?

Why not be honest here Jack: The future of internet gaming in America is in huge danger, from a financial and legal standpoint. Im sure there will be a slew of articles and "inside information" from the books still left about how everything is fine, they are not going anywhere, money is safe, Congress has no basis to keep going ect, ect, ect...

But if Pinny can go, anyone can go. Admit it.

Further, Congress wasnt just doing shit "for the elections." Maybe some havent noticed but gambling on sports is illegal in the US, except for Nevada. Why would you think Congress wouldnt keep attempting to enforce this longstanding law?

Twice since this has happened I have seen you attempt to funnel posters into your other sponsors.

Perhaps saying "Guys, dont do shit with your money until I can get some REAL (not "they said they are fine" which has not worked in the past) assurances for your members. Is it possible that a real recommedation MAY be that it has been proven that it is not safe to keep money on line during this time of transition?

Sorry J, I know you make your living off this shit, but you owe it to the Mall to tell both sides of the story, or at least a realistic version of the true story.

I agree with Johnny. Online gambling is in the serious danger zone. It is scary what has heppened and has the element of unknown for the future. He is also correct about all the positive people here Jack and Judge spinning their way to happiness. This does not look good and getting worse. There is very little good news. Sad.

[jonnyblaze]

Originally Posted by alby

I realize pinny is gonna pay up but I don't like the direction this shit is going.

Hard enough to beat the vig let alone some book runnin off with your loot.

Thats all Im asking out of the CM folks, some accountablility that shit is going ni the wrong direction, not these false assurances that everythig is hunky dory at the books that are left. It comes off as very disingenuous.

[Dr. Jack]

JB – You have a right to speak your mind about your frustrations. You make some fair points but these are not all facts.

I will let everyone vent for a while without me trying to respond to every post and I will respond in detail later on today.

One thing I will say right now with 100% conviction.

I have told people from the beginning of this mess – to use your head and do what is right for you. It might be right for someone and not right for someone else.

I don’t think anyone (including me) has said that any of this stuff has been good for the industry. With that being said – I only offer top rated books as sponsors, I have turned away countless offers from all kinds of books. I can only do so much

I do not think it’s fair for you to say one book closes and I just push to another shop. Since the beginning I have clearly stated that I believe your money is safest in Bet Jamaica, Greek, Cris. Pinnacle was on everyone’s “approved” list but again they are not stealing your money – they are stopping with the US. It’s their choice and I believe the wrong choice – but their decision, not mine!

If I did not have Pinny available here even though they did not pay Cappers Mall big sponsor money (as you have applied) – people would say, only because they do not pay us or whatever. Yes we sell some sponsorships here to keep the site flowing and at the same time – I believe we take a responsible position with regards to all of this. We remain honest and no, my position has not changed concerning the industry going away. I still don’t believe that will ever happen. When my position changes – I will tell the forum but for now my position is the same – be smart, use your head and always be careful.

Like I mentioned before in another thread – books like Greek and Cris were here long before Pinny ever came on the scene and will be here long after they leave. If you want to have me crucified for that – that is your right

[Gerk]

Jonny,

You started this thread a few months ago

I Use A Local

Two weeks later, you started a thread saying F**K WWTS because you were worried about getting your money out.

If you are sincerely concerned about your large amounts of money in off-shore accounts, I suggest you lower your exposure, get your money out now and go all local.

I lost money in the Betonsports fiasco so I am speaking from experience.

We are all taking a risk having money out there. It is really your responsibilty and no one elses if things like this happen now and in the future

[jonnyblaze]

Originally Posted by Gerk

Jonny,

You started this thread a few months ago

I Use A Local

Two weeks later, you started a thread saying F**K WWTS because you were worried about getting your money out.

If you are sincerely concerned about your large amounts of money in off-shore accounts, I suggest you lower your exposure, get your money out now and go all local.

I lost money in the Betonsports fiasco so I am speaking from experience.

We are all taking a risk having money out there. It is really your responsibilty and no one elses if things like this happen now and in the future

Gerk: I use a local, actually two.

I have also been gambling on sports since I was 13. Further, I am not broke by any means. I had money on-line for alternate lines and futures, but no more than 25% of my gaming money is on-line.

Is this ok with you?

My concerns is that I have picked more than one offshore book due to the recommendations from those in here, many of whom are Mods or Jack themselves. They have not turned out well.

I simply ask how Jack reconciles the fact that books are closing left and right, big trouble in congress, money being lost, yet he and some of his cronies act as if everthing is fine and isolated.

Why do they never give an alternative view? There is far more info of online gaming being ****ed rather than fruitful. Why is there never an honest" Dont do shit right now, lets see what happens cuase I dont ****ing know.." from Jack or Judge.

When a book goes bad, its "we had no idea." If so, then you have no idea about the books youtout either.

[jonnyblaze]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jack

JB – You have a right to speak your mind about your frustrations. You make some fair points but these are not all facts.

I will let everyone vent for a while without me trying to respond to every post and I will respond in detail later on today.

One thing I will say right now with 100% conviction.

I have told people from the beginning of this mess – to use your head and do what is right for you. It might be right for someone and not right for someone else.

I don’t think anyone (including me) has said that any of this stuff has been good for the industry. With that being said – I only offer top rated books as sponsors, I have turned away countless offers from all kinds of books. I can only do so much

I do not think it’s fair for you to say one book closes and I just push to another shop. Since the beginning I have clearly stated that I believe your money is safest in Bet Jamaica, Greek, Cris. Pinnacle was on everyone’s “approved” list but again they are not stealing your money – they are stopping with the US. It’s their choice and I believe the wrong choice – but their decision, not mine!

If I did not have Pinny available here even though they did not pay Cappers Mall big sponsor money (as you have applied) – people would say, only because they do not pay us or whatever. Yes we sell some sponsorships here to keep the site flowing and at the same time – I believe we take a responsible position with regards to all of this. We remain honest and no, my position has not changed concerning the industry going away. I still don’t believe that will ever happen. When my position changes – I will tell the forum but for now my position is the same – be smart, use your head and always be careful.

Like I mentioned before in another thread – books like Greek and Cris were here long before Pinny ever came on the scene and will be here long after they leave. If you want to have me crucified for that – that is your right

Jack, you are a good man but you have not addressed the real issue.

Do you and Judge know whats going on offshore or not?

If you dont, which you claim today with Pinny and have claimed every other time a book has shut down, then why try to attempt to position yourself like you know something about the books you continue to pormote? After all, when they go under, will you say....."I didnt know???"

I think it is slightly un-ethical that after this huge new today that you have, and dont make me go find it, you know you wrote it, attempted to tell people to go other books. How about telling them to get thier money and we can cooectively investigate the issue and make reccomedations?"

[Gerk]

Do you think even the books know what is going to happen next, much less Jack or anyone else?

What I'm saying is if you are that worried about it, get your money out. The evidence is there it can and probably will happen again. Ultimately again, it is our own responsibility if something happens

I have limited my exposure by a huge amount after the BOS deal, one where I have money there, but am comftorable if something happens, I may not get it out.

[Romanowski]

Originally Posted by jonnyblaze

Why do they never give an alternative view? There is far more info of online gaming being ****ed rather than fruitful. Why is there never an honest" Dont do shit right now, lets see what happens cuase I dont ****ing know.." from Jack or Judge.

When a book goes bad, its "we had no idea." If so, then you have no idea about the books youtout either.

posters are the only true "watchdogs" and trust me nobody saw this coming

for a positive spin and only a guess

Pinnacle recieves a lot of credt action

and that under current laws is unlawful (taking bets on US soil)..so maybe thats where they felt the heat.

if enough pressure is put on them, banks (even for Euro and Asian action) wont do business with them if they dont adhere

believe it or not, it is not agaisnt the law now to bet online