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  #26  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:08 PM
magicbus magicbus is offline
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Trout
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2018, 05:53 PM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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His name of Trout is symbolically very appropriate because other than one first round playoff appearance, his team has “gone fishing” the day after the regular season has ended.
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2018, 11:34 PM
BLUE LOU BOYLE BLUE LOU BOYLE is offline
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Trout went 5-5 tonight...2 home runs 5 rbi...because the Angels have sucked yet again this season, he'll probably finish 2nd behind Mookie for the MVP...I believe it would be the 4th time Trout would have placed 2nd, if in fact he does finish 2nd...JD has also had a phenomenal season, which could land Trout a 3rd place finish.

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  #29  
Old 09-11-2018, 12:54 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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Once again and in a nutshell for me, in comparison to some other very good players who are electric and who help the team add up to more than the sum of the parts, Trout doesn't do very much in this comparison.
The Angels have had some very good teams on the field since Trout started playing, and imo the results overall have been pretty dismal.
In short going 5 for 5 is one thing in a given game but imo Trout needs to do and add more in the way of intangibles to make his team better and a legitimate contender before I would ever vote him as the most valuable/best player in baseball.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 12:57 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2018, 01:33 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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One final comment before I retire for the evening.
I watched a good part of the Angels game tonight. and for me as usual they are a very boring team with no sense of purpose or motivation.
With a crappy manager like Scioscia at the helm who imo does very little than pick up his paycheck every wek, it is even more imperative that someone else step up and light a fire under the team.
I can think of no one better than in this instance the so called best player in baseball.
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  #31  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:15 AM
mark12 mark12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savage1 View Post
For me the responses in this so far
thread amounts to the same thing as what it means and what usually happens when too many services agree on the same side on a game. lol
Trout. Yeah we're all wrong just like almost every GM in baseball. Boston's GM may say Betts out of loyalty but if you put him on a polygraph it would show he was lying. Betts hit .264 last year. He has become a much better leader with Benintendi and JD Martinez hitting behind him in the line up.
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  #32  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:29 AM
mark12 mark12 is offline
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Originally Posted by savage1 View Post
One final comment before I retire for the evening.
I watched a good part of the Angels game tonight. and for me as usual they are a very boring team with no sense of purpose or motivation.
With a crappy manager like Scioscia at the helm who imo does very little than pick up his paycheck every wek, it is even more imperative that someone else step up and light a fire under the team.
I can think of no one better than in this instance the so called best player in baseball.
Most of the team has spent time on the DL. Hard to pump up AAA players. Swap the players and all the rah rah leadership Betts can muster can't save the Angels. I'll take the better player. Trout!
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  #33  
Old 09-11-2018, 07:56 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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Most of the team has spent time on the DL. Hard to pump up AAA players. Swap the players and all the rah rah leadership Betts can muster can't save the Angels. I'll take the better player. Trout!
He hasn't always been injured and on the DL.
Look at the results of his team during the other years he has been with Angels.
Great players lead by example and inspire their teammates to greater heights-imo Trout falls short very badly in this regard and adds nothing in the way of chemistry as the Angels continue to underachieve year after year.
If you don't want to use Betts in the comparison, then use a dynamic and inspirational player like Altuve or even Pedroia when he was in his prime.
When/until/if Trout steps us and becomes the straw which stirs the drink and his team to greater heights with all of the talent they have and they become legitimate contender, for me he will remain an individual great player from the shoulders down; imo this will get the Angels nowhere except continued ho hum/ boring and out of contention seasons.
In short as I said yesterday, I get no sense of motivation or sense of unity on this team, and imo the best player on the team needs to do his part-without it by my way of looking at the totality of things, he is not the best or most valuable player in baseball.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:21 AM
Dale City Dale City is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale City View Post
Trout
Sitting here watching ESPN'S Sports Center, and low and behold on their Top 10 Plays of the Night,c not only does Trout make the list, but then the commentator remarks about what a great player Trout is ,on a bad team. I like and respect you Savage, buy it's more than obvious that Trout is universally recognized as being Great and possibly on his way to being the greatest. Betts is a phenomenal player and when both guys finally hang up their hats, things could change, but at this point, the overwhelming majority recognizes Trout as the better player.
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  #35  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:44 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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Sitting here watching ESPN'S Sports Center, and low and behold on their Top 10 Plays of the Night,c not only does Trout make the list, but then the commentator remarks about what a great player Trout is ,on a bad team. I like and respect you Savage, buy it's more than obvious that Trout is universally recognized as being Great and possibly on his way to being the greatest. Betts is a phenomenal player and when both guys finally hang up their hats, things could change, but at this point, the overwhelming majority recognizes Trout as the better player.
Each to their own Dale City.
The commentators can say whatever they want about his being a great player on a bad team.
For me though the teams he has played on in general have been far from bad and in many cases quite good on paper.
The results of the teams he has played on have been very disappointing.
Lets just say that as far as his overall positive intangible effects on the team, he isn't David Ortiz that's for sure and far from it.
Also imo he will NEVER be on his way to becoming the greatest ever until/when/if his team(s) make some hay.
Again and to repeat, folks have the right to evaluate a Trout or any player in which they choose to do so.
I choose to do so in a more encompassing way, one which takes into account more than what he does physically on the field-for me there is a lot more to it than individual statistics and which is very important to a team's success, which is the bottom line.
If and when I get the feeling that the overall chemistry, purpose, motivation and unity has improved, the team improves and that Trout is a part of this, I will stick to my opinion that he is not the best player in baseball.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 08:47 AM.
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:23 AM
kbsooner21 kbsooner21 is offline
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Why is this thread still going?
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:39 AM
wayne1218 wayne1218 is offline
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Why is this thread still going?
lol - I have no idea

I love Mookie Betts BUT …. I would trade him straight up for Trout in a millisecond. It's hard for me to believe there is a Red Sox fan out there that doesn't agree with that BUT …. than there is savage. hahaha
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  #38  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:54 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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lol - I have no idea

I love Mookie Betts BUT …. I would trade him straight up for Trout in a millisecond. It's hard for me to believe there is a Red Sox fan out there that doesn't agree with that BUT …. than there is savage. hahaha
Obviously this can't be proven, but if there was a time machine which could transport both Betts and Trout back to the beginning of the season and the two exchanged uniforms and the season played out, I would make a huge bet that the Angel's record would be better.
I can't honestly say if the Sox record would be worse(how could it realistically be much better?) with his presence because perhaps Trout might just fit in better than he does with the Angels, and the need for leadership and contributing to intangibles wouldn't be as great as it is with the Angels.
Also, there is no guarantee that with a new team and city(the Sox) that Trout could contribute as much in a tangible way as has Mookie-not everyone can handle the pressure of playing in Boston-why gamble when you have an excellent and established player in Mookie already?
Aside from FA and salary considerations, I seriously doubt that DD and ownership would make a straight-up trade either for some of the reasons I have stated in this and previous posts.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 09:56 AM.
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  #39  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:55 AM
wayne1218 wayne1218 is offline
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You are crazy savage. That is my only explanation. lol
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  #40  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:59 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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You are crazy savage. That is my only explanation. lol
Waye-Over at BC before the 2013 season began, you called/implied I was crazy and wore a Sox pink hat because I felt that the Sox were going to do a lot better than most people believed, namely which was to finish dead last.
We all know how that turned out. lol
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  #41  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:12 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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ps I have heard the argument that a big reason the Sox won it all in 2013 was because of the Boston Marathon, and that rallied the team in addition to the fact that they were buried in the cellar under BV the year before.
To play Devils Advocate, if the Boston Marathon had something to do with the team's success, that in itself is an intangible which imo is very important in general to a team's success.
And I would remind you about Papi's rallying speech re: the Marathon to inspire his team.
Also, lets not forget that one of the big reasons the team did as well as it did during that year was because of the intangibles, ie the team unity, camaraderie, chemistry, sense of motivation with folks like Victorino, Pedroia, Papi and the team in general playing so well together as a team and really wanting to achieve.
The lack of above imo is one of reasons the Angels have floundered for a while and with Trout on the team-some of the blame can be attributed to their crappy manager for sure, and as I have implied, because Mike Trout has added only talent and empirical and tangible statistics on the field-simply not enough by my way of thinking.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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  #42  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:13 AM
Dale City Dale City is offline
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Each to their own Dale City.
The commentators can say whatever they want about his being a great player on a bad team.
For me though the teams he has played on in general have been far from bad and in many cases quite good on paper.
The results of the teams he has played on have been very disappointing.
Lets just say that as far as his overall positive intangible effects on the team, he isn't David Ortiz that's for sure and far from it.
Also imo he will NEVER be on his way to becoming the greatest ever until/when/if his team(s) make some hay.
Again and to repeat, folks have the right to evaluate a Trout or any player in which they choose to do so.
I choose to do so in a more encompassing way, one which takes into account more than what he does physically on the field-for me there is a lot more to it than individual statistics and which is very important to a team's success, which is the bottom line.
If and when I get the feeling that the overall chemistry, purpose, motivation and unity has improved, the team improves and that Trout is a part of this, I will stick to my opinion that he is not the best player in baseball.
Your initial question is about the opinion of the people in this forum as to who each individual prefers. Your opinion is Trout. Good for you. The majority is on Trout. I respect your opinion and choice. The rest of the people stated their choice. Stand by your conviction, even as the minority, and the vast majority will stick with ours. Take Care Savage
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:14 AM
wayne1218 wayne1218 is offline
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Originally Posted by savage1 View Post
Waye-Over at BC before the 2013 season began, you called/implied I was crazy and wore a Sox pink hat because I felt that the Sox were going to do a lot better than most people believed, namely which was to finish dead last.
We all know how that turned out. lol
savage you think that every year. It is the blind squirrel effect or the "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" theory.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:28 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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savage you think that every year. It is the blind squirrel effect or the "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" theory.
Thats not true at all.
I expressed plenty of doubts and concerns on the Red Sox Message Board (until MLB eliminated the message forums this year) about the team's chances in a given year when others were eternally optimistic/unrealistic about how good the team was and wanted to lay all of the blame on Farrell rall when things didn't go as they thought they should of.
Back t0 2013-I never thought they would win the WS before the season began, but I did think they would surpise people simply because they had improved the overall team chemistry by ridding themselves of some of the cancers from the year before and getting players who had a winning attitude and decent if not great talent on paper.
Most Sox fans on the Sox Forum thought they would fail miserably because they didn't add any big name players.
Conversely in that season, if you recall, the Jays went out and simply tried o win the WS by acquiring talent only with no consideration to other factors loosely called intangibles.
This type of one way thinking resulted in the Jays rather than the Sox finishing dead last when lots of folks believe the opposite would occur.

Last edited by savage1; 09-11-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:30 AM
wayne1218 wayne1218 is offline
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You didn't express those opinions here and that is all that matters to me
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  #46  
Old 09-11-2018, 11:35 AM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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You didn't express those opinions here and that is all that matters to me
For me that doesn't change the fact that you said I am always optimistic about the Sox chances every year, which is simply not true.
In effect you made a blanket statement about every year with no foundation or basis because I simply stated back in 2013 that I was not pessimistic like most Sox fans for reasons clearly stated.
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:02 PM
Cali Roots Cali Roots is offline
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Add this thread to the Homer HOF thread that we need to start. My god.
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2018, 02:50 PM
BLUE LOU BOYLE BLUE LOU BOYLE is offline
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How 'bout Bregman?

In today's game vs the Tigers, he just hit his 50th double, scored his 100th run and knocked in his 100 RBI of the year...also has 30 home runs on the season....I believe he's the 3rd player in MLB history to accomplish the feat of having 50 doubles, 30 home runs and 100 RBI in a season...not bad for a 24 year old kid!

BLB
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  #49  
Old 09-12-2018, 03:49 PM
savage1 savage1 is offline
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Originally Posted by BLUE LOU BOYLE View Post
How 'bout Bregman?

In today's game vs the Tigers, he just hit his 50th double, scored his 100th run and knocked in his 100 RBI of the year...also has 30 home runs on the season....I believe he's the 3rd player in MLB history to accomplish the feat of having 50 doubles, 30 home runs and 100 RBI in a season...not bad for a 24 year old kid!

BLB
I agree and just think, it is only his second full season with the Astros and with one WS Championship under as belt and another a distinct possibility.
How does that compare with Trout with eight seasons and one post season appearance and with a quick three game sweep elimination. lol
Of course it took more than Bregman to accomplish what the Astros did last year and so far this year, but still for me as good as Trout is with INDIVIDUAL accomplishments, he lacks that certain "It" factor which is necessary to help make his team an overall success.
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  #50  
Old 09-13-2018, 04:07 PM
BLUE LOU BOYLE BLUE LOU BOYLE is offline
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Bregman's deep desire to improve paying off
Young Astros star putting together MVP-caliber second season


Sep. 13th, 2018
By Richard Justice MLB.com @RichardJustice
9:55 AM EDT

To trace how Astros third baseman Alex Bregman has inserted himself into the American League Most Valuable Player Award conversation, we begin with a conversation that took place a few days after last season ended.

"I witnessed an MVP firsthand in Jose Altuve," Bregman said. "I asked him what he did during the offseason, and he said he trains his core."

More on that later. Here's the abbreviated case for Bregman:

▪ Fourth in the AL in Wins Above Replacement at 7.5.

▪ First in the Majors in extra-base hits (81) and doubles (50).

▪ Ninth in the AL in home runs (30).

▪ First in the Majors in Win Probability Added (5.68). (Win Probability Added is an attempt to blend an analytics crunching of numbers with the context of game situations, such as "clutch" at-bats. Bregman was excellent in this area last season as well. His tiebreaking eighth-inning home run off Chris Sale might have been the biggest hit the Astros got in a clinching Game 4 of last season's AL Division Series. And his run-scoring single in the bottom of the 10th inning ended a five-hour, 17-minute World Series Game 5.)

After Wednesday's milestone game in the Astros' 5-4 win over the Tigers, Bregman was hitting .366 with five homers and 14 RBIs in 11 games this month and having reached base in 39 straight games.

How's it going, Alex?

"It's been pretty good," he said. "But [there's] so much work to do. So much to get better at. I got off to a slow start and kind of been swimming uphill since then. But it's been a pretty good year, and a lot to build on and get better at in all phases of the game. I put myself in a hole. I'm definitely going to try and figure out how to get off to a better start next year."

After Bregman took five days off last fall to celebrate winning the World Series and rest his body, he returned to the gym. He's not the first player to discover the importance of strengthening the body's core. Phillies right-hander Jake Arrieta, to name one, has credited a similar regimen with helping turn his career around.

For Bregman, it was simple.

"I want to be able to drive the ball to all fields," he said. "I really worked on that."

And so by the time Bregman reported to Spring Training in West Palm Beach, Fla., in February, he was confident he had done what Altuve advised him to do. He was halfway there.

"As soon as I got to Spring Training, I was like, 'You know, the best players in this game walk,'" he said. "Mike Trout. Jose Ramirez. Mookie Betts. All these guys walk, and they swing at strikes.

"Joey Votto, he walks. I decided I wanted to bring my walk numbers up, and that's not necessarily taking a bunch of pitches. I feel like that's why I got off to a rough start this year -- because I was taking pitches."

There's a fine line between being passive and aggressive.

"One hundred percent," Bregman said.

Bregman was hitting .214 on April 17 and had hit one home run in 70 at-bats. His smart new plan was being tested.

"At the beginning of this year, I was taking pitches," he said. "I wasn't really looking to do damage and only swinging in the strike zone. I was taking good pitches that I could do damage with, and then ending up walking."
And then something clicked.

"I started walking based on pitches being thrown outside the zone, outside of where I could drive," Bregman said.

Bregman is not completely certain how his game plan fell into place, but what has happened since is there for anyone to see. Since then, he has been among baseball's most productive -- and most improved -- hitters.

To put this discipline into perspective, consider this: Bregman, Votto, Ramirez, Trout and Carlos Santana are the only qualified hitters in MLB with more walks than strikeouts. To understand what Bregman has done is one thing. To understand how is more complicated. He simply may be one of those guys who combines a freakishly high level of talent with a burning desire to be great.

"I think it has a lot to do with people I was surrounded with growing up," Bregman said. "My father loved the game. The people at the Albuquerque Academy I grew up with teaching me the game.

"And then so many people along the way. Coach [Ray] Birmingham at the University of New Mexico gave me a speech when I was 13 years old at the end of a baseball camp that said, 'If you want to be good at this game, you have to decide.'

"Deciding meant that there's no going to prom, you have to decide you want to be really good. I've felt like since that day I've been focused on the ins and outs of the game, and I've fallen in love with it from about that day one."

Let's be clear about Bregman's AL MVP Award chances: He's still a long shot. Red Sox outfielder Betts is the clear front-runner, and Trout, Martinez and Ramirez finished ahead of Bregman in MLB.com's latest MVP Awards poll.

But in just Bregman's second full Major League season, he's in the mix.

"And," Astros manager AJ Hinch said, "he's 24 years old. He's going to get better. He's driven to be great. As good as he has been this season, there's more there."
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