Is Roy Halladay the best right hander ever?

[Dr. Jack]

He's in the conversation for sure. Where does he rank among the all-time greats?

[MCP313]

Judging from the last 25 years or so that I have to go by I wouldnt even rank him ahead of Pedro, Maddux or Clemens.

I would rank him top 5 of this generation which would deserve definite legitimate HOF consideration.....Is he even a no doubt 1st ballot HOF'er? Thats debatable IMO. Personally I dont think he is the best right hander in the game today....I would say thats Lincecum with Hallday 2nd, JMO though.

[Chris46139]

CRONC, I don't think its debatable that Halladay is a first ballot HOF. To do what he has done, in the PED era, mostly on a shit team, is remarkable. I know the argument that pitchers are juicing too, blah blah blah. But he has been a dominant, shut down pitcher for many years. And that is going to more important going forward for pitchers, since 300 game winners will become virtually extinct

[Gobbler's Knob]

Roy come home

[MCP313]

13 Seasons 2095.2 (inn) 293 G, 153 W, 77 L, 1 S, 1534 K, 459 BB, 2036 HA 3.385ERA 1.1908 WHIP

6.59 K/9, 1.98 BB/9

Considering he will turn 33 in 2 weeks I would say his best years are probably exactly now or behind him....with this stat line IMO he isnt a sure fire 1st ballot HOFer

Dont get me wrong the guy is aces but the baseball HOF isnt like the NFL's.

[JSi922]

dont compare lincecum.


he has to do it consistently still for about 2 more year to be considered with doc.

#1 he plays in the worst hitting division in baseball the NL west. look what roy is doing in his FIRST year in the NL. he is going to put up retarded numbers. roy could have 4 complete games already if not for a rain delay ruining 1 inning of a 5 run lead.


also for pitchers like lincecum that throw hard, it is very difficult to maintain the speed without getting hurt. how good will lincecum be when his fastball slows down?

thats why halladay and maddux and rivera are amazing and be around for a long time. they dont rely on speed, its location and movement.

[JSi922]

oh and roy halladay will be in the HOF guaranteed and after 2-3 seasons with the philliy bats with him and the NL bats hes opposing, it wont be an arguement. you have to understand the enormity of facing the yankee and red sox bats over the last 4-5 years about 10-15 times a year. this is not like facing the dbacks and padres 15 times. that would be a difference in 1.5 in ERA IMO.


doc gets better as the season goes on.

[MCP313]

Originally Posted by JSi922

dont compare lincecum.


he has to do it consistently still for about 2 more year to be considered with doc.

#1 he plays in the worst hitting division in baseball the NL west. look what roy is doing in his FIRST year in the NL. he is going to put up retarded numbers. roy could have 4 complete games already if not for a rain delay ruining 1 inning of a 5 run lead.


also for pitchers like lincecum that throw hard, it is very difficult to maintain the speed without getting hurt. how good will lincecum be when his fastball slows down?

thats why halladay and maddux and rivera are amazing and be around for a long time. they dont rely on speed, its location and movement.

In terms of body of work I am not comparing Lincecum and Halladay but as of right now I think Lincecum is the best RH pitcher in baseball.

As far as Halladay and the NL go I would tend to reserve judgement after 5 starts citing a very small sample size.

To touch on Lincecum again he hasnt been throwing hard really since the beginning of last year as his average fastball I believe is around 93MPH......Lincecum has become what he is today because his mastery of the changeup.

Another thing is I think more than half of Hallday's starts have come after baseball has started testing for banned substances. When I think of dominance personally I like to look at pitchers ERA relative to the league average and while good to great, it hasnt been eye popping when compared to Pedro in his prime....again just my opinion.

[MCP313]

Originally Posted by JSi922

oh and roy halladay will be in the HOF guaranteed and after 2-3 seasons with the philliy bats with him and the NL bats hes opposing, it wont be an arguement. you have to understand the enormity of facing the yankee and red sox bats over the last 4-5 years about 10-15 times a year. this is not like facing the dbacks and padres 15 times. that would be a difference in 1.5 in ERA IMO.


doc gets better as the season goes on.

How about Pedro facing the awesome Yankee offenses, great Baltimore offenses of the late 90s and early 2000s and the entire league juiced up for that matter all the while putting up much better numbers than Halladay.

Halladay is great but not even close to being the greatest......I assume you favor Halladay now somewhat that he pitches for Philadelphia, correct?

[Dr. Jack]

Pedro was amazing I agree. I think Halladay is in the conversation. He's always been good on shit teams but one thing about him is he seems to get better each year.

Love Lincecum but think he will break down within a couple years. He is dominating though

[justdonating]

Lincecum is a beast, but I'd like to see the kid do it for another few years before talking about best in the game. Halladay is a consistent workhouse and has been since 2002. Playing with the Phillies right now will only help him. I can see him winning 20 his year easily. In fact, if the Phillies get on a roll, I can see him putting in a John Tudor 85' like 21-8 season. I don't think he is 1st ballot HOF yet, but if he runs off another 2-3 years of 17+ wins his HOF stock will continue to rise. Given his age, I'm not sure he can get enough wins to get 1st ballot, but getting 200-250 wins won't hurt his cause. Guy is a beast!

[Sweetleaf22]

give me


Roger Clemens

or

Nolan Ryan



havent seen much film but Ive heard of this guy.....................Cy Young

[MCP313]

I dont want it to look like Im a Hallday basher. He is in the conversation for best pitcher in the game right now and probably a HOFer when its all said and done but when measuring dominance its easier to remember whats being done now as opposed to a few years ago.

Pedro Martinez from 97-03 has to go down as one of the best 7 year stretches in MLB history.....I still cant believe my eyes when looking at the back of his baseball card. Especially 99 & 00.

This was also the height of the steroid era making even more impressive.

[MCP313]

Originally Posted by justdonating

Lincecum is a beast, but I'd like to see the kid do it for another few years before talking about best in the game. Halladay is a consistent workhouse and has been since 2002. Playing with the Phillies right now will only help him. I can see him winning 20 his year easily. In fact, if the Phillies get on a roll, I can see him putting in a John Tudor 85' like 21-8 season. I don't think he is 1st ballot HOF yet, but if he runs off another 2-3 years of 17+ wins his HOF stock will continue to rise. Given his age, I'm not sure he can get enough wins to get 1st ballot, but getting 200-250 wins won't hurt his cause. Guy is a beast!

Cant disagree with anything you say. In terms of body of work I cant compare Lincecum with anyone just yet being he is so young but in terms of the right here and right now or if we had to rate SPs just for the 2010 season I would think Tim is #1 IMO with Halladay a close #2.

Great topic btw....love any thread that compares baseball players.

[justdonating]

Originally Posted by MtrCtyPimp

I dont want it to look like Im a Hallday basher. He is in the conversation for best pitcher in the game right now and probably a HOFer when its all said and done but when measuring dominance its easier to remember whats being done now as opposed to a few years ago.

Pedro Martinez from 97-03 has to go down as one of the best 7 year stretches in MLB history.....I still cant believe my eyes when looking at the back of his baseball card. Especially 99 & 00.

This was also the height of the steroid era making even more impressive.

You're not bashing Halladay. Pedro had a phenomenal run during that time. Heck, I'd even throw in 04, it wasn't shabby. Its hard for me to narrow it down to just one guy. I love Maddux's 92-02 run. For a guy who looked more like a professor than a pitcher, he could make batters look stupid. Lincecum has the potential to be a great one, but until I see it for another 2-3 years, I'd rate his career behind Smoltz, Webb, Beckett, and many others. Not bashing the kid, just saying he needs to build a bigger resume.