Bama Champs...also No. 1 Recruiting Class

[Muleriders]

Congrats to Alabama for winning the national title. Game over.

Now, Bama has claimed the No. 1 recruiting class in the country.

Saban is a hardankle worker....don't count out the Tide next year.

[barryg]

He better recruit a kicker

[Romanowski]

Congrats, and deserved the championship

Normally, unless like this year no other team steps up

but normally when you lose head to head, dont rep the west in the conference championship

you dont go to National Championship

And next year LSU is loaded, and will be preseason #1, along with play Bama at home

There will be a team out west, who has the speed, but also the size, unlike Oregon

USC will challenge the SECs run

[ksturg]

Also #1 in oversigning recruits. Here is their last 5 recruiting classes. 28,32, 28, 26, 23, and 26 already lined up for this year. Total of 135, or an average of 27 each year. Now how does Saban get his roster under 85 each year?

Weed out the weak and keep the studs, of course LSU is #2 in doing the exact same thing. They get top recruits no doubt, but other conferences can't compete with that. The Big Ten doesn't allow oversigning at all, and most leagues discourage it. However, all 12 SEC coaches are in favor, think that plays any part in recruiting classes?


Oversigning.com

[cptkirk321]

Originally Posted by ksturg

Also #1 in oversigning recruits. Here is their last 5 recruiting classes. 28,32, 28, 26, 23, and 26 already lined up for this year. Total of 135, or an average of 27 each year. Now how does Saban get his roster under 85 each year?

Weed out the weak and keep the studs, of course LSU is #2 in doing the exact same thing. They get top recruits no doubt, but other conferences can't compete with that. The Big Ten doesn't allow oversigning at all, and most leagues discourage it. However, all 12 SEC coaches are in favor, think that plays any part in recruiting classes?


Oversigning.com

That sounds like the free market system and good for Saban for following the ideals of the strong get stronger and the weak don't.

[JunkyardDog47]

Congrats Mule. Glad to see that 'Bama won for you. On the negative side, that was the worst BCS Championship game I ever saw. Very boring. Next season, USC has much more talent that either LSU or Alabama will have offensively speaking. The biggest question is the loss of scholarships. They will not be deep at all. USC returns their offense just about in tact. The lose LT Kall, and RB Tyler, but return what is easily the nations best QB-WR trio and a slew of talented RB's. There is no way that 'Bama or LSU can match that fire power, or defend it. It will come down to defense. Right now I think USC is the #1 team in the nation, and I am not too sure that Arkansas is not #2. They play both Alabama and LSU at home. I would even consider ranking Georgia ahead of both 'Bama and LSU. Oregon will be tough also. The only other team I see challenging The SEC or Pac 12 is Oklahoma, now that Jones has decided to stay.

2012 starts today. I think I like this time of the year better than during the season because the only people who will be in this sub-forum will be the real college football fans.

[ksturg]

Originally Posted by cptkirk321

That sounds like the free market system and good for Saban for following the ideals of the strong get stronger and the weak don't.

Yes, comparing NCAA football, different conference rules and regulations, and standards that coaches are held to by their individual institutions is just like the free market society that you hate so bad in the US.

Nice job bringing your sarcasm and attempt to take a regular forum posting into a political argument. No bait being taken here, I wouldn't even no where to start with that one.

[Romanowski]

it is indeed a free market, and a fair comparison

because schools have built a brand, more players want a chance to compete for starting roles

moreso then being a sure starter for a lesser brand or school

[cptkirk321]

Originally Posted by ksturg

Yes, comparing NCAA football, different conference rules and regulations, and standards that coaches are held to by their individual institutions is just like the free market society that you hate so bad in the US.

Nice job bringing your sarcasm and attempt to take a regular forum posting into a political argument. No bait being taken here, I wouldn't even no where to start with that one.

Hate to break the news to you big boy but I don't hate the free market society, I am just intelligent enough to know what you call a free market system is not even close. A free market system wouldn't mean that certain companies are getting benefits by the government while others don't. Free market system is everybody has the same basic rules and regulations and the strong thrive and the weak don't.

But in this instance this is as close as you can get to the free market system. Every conference is open to determine how and what they allow for recruiting and the strong thrive and the weak don't.

Good for Saban and the other conferences for making their conference the strongest it can be and probably why no other conference has had a sniff of the National Championship in the past 6 or 7 years.

[cptkirk321]

Originally Posted by Romanowski

it is indeed a free market, and a fair comparison

because schools have built a brand, more players want a chance to compete for starting roles

moreso then being a sure starter for a lesser brand or school

[ksturg]

Originally Posted by cptkirk321

Hate to break the news to you big boy but I don't hate the free market society, I am just intelligent enough to know what you call a free market system is not even close. A free market system wouldn't mean that certain companies are getting benefits by the government while others don't. Free market system is everybody has the same basic rules and regulations and the strong thrive and the weak don't.

But in this instance this is as close as you can get to the free market system. Every conference is open to determine how and what they allow for recruiting and the strong thrive and the weak don't.

Good for Saban and the other conferences for making their conference the strongest it can be and probably why no other conference has had a sniff of the National Championship in the past 6 or 7 years.

???

[ksturg]

Rome, I agree with the overall concept of what you are saying regarding colleges, brands, etc and how they choose to operate. My original point (which I could have made clearer) was in direct reference to Saban who Mulerider was lauding as a great coach and recruiter (Which 100% he is by the way).

I was just stating that he has a competitive advantage over a lot of other programs in the country when it comes to recruiting because of the University that he works for and how they choose to operate. The SEC as a whole has that advantage. Now you could say well those other coaches don't have to work for the schools they do, and I would also agree. However, there are only so many jobs to go around and when he is allowed to sign 10 extra recruits, then take scholarships away from kids that haven't fit the bill well that is an advantage. I mean, he was the one who originally saw talent in the kid and signed him to play, because he doesn't pan out he can basically cut him and get somebody different? Other coaches don't have that luxury (Not a lot do, some other conferences I believe have much stricter rules, allowing only a +2 or +3 scenario), so he has a recruiting advantage over his peers.

[ksturg]

This is from Wikepedia under oversigning (So obviously take it for what it is worth) , but some interesting stuff here. Heck of a lot of scrutiny for old Saban the last few years. The last sentence says the SEC changed their practices last summer to at least limit it to 25, but the day before the coaches unaminously voted against the proposal. Not sure on the exact rules with medical redshirts, etc. but I thought Alabama already had 26 signed for this coming year? Maybe somebody else could explain better. Either way, some pretty shady stuff that isn't allowed at a lot of other schools which was my original point about him recruiting at an advantage over other coaches.


Southeastern Conference

Several universities within the Southeastern Conference (SEC) have frequently been accused of oversigning.[13][14] Florida, Georgia,[15] and Vanderbilt are usually noted as exceptions within the SEC due to their having signed the fewest total recruits among SEC teams over the past decade.[16] Georgia head coach Mark Richt has condemned the process, saying "I don't want to oversign, then tell one of the kids we've already got, 'You've got no value to us' and toss him aside. I'm not going to do that."[2]

On February 1, 2011, Sports Illustrated published a letter from the president of the University of Florida, Bernie Machen, in which Machen condemned oversigning-related practices - including grayshirting and the excessive use of medical disqualifications - as "morally reprehensible" and "repugnant."[17]
[edit] Houston Nutt Rule

In May 2009, the SEC passed a rule restricting its football teams to accepting no more than 28 National Letters of Intent each year.[18] This move was widely viewed as a direct response to the University of Mississippi and its head coach, Houston Nutt, having promised 37 scholarships to new recruits for the 2009 season. Thus the rule is now commonly referred to as "The Houston Nutt Rule."[14][19]
[edit] Alabama and Nick Saban
[edit] 2010
[edit] WSJ Medical Scholarship Concerns

On September 24, 2010 2010, theWall Street Journal published an article suggesting the University of Alabama and its head coach, Nick Saban, had encouraging some under-performing players to quit the team for medical reasons in order to gain a competitive edge.

Former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman said "I'm still kind of bitter," and Coach Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that Kirschman believes he could have played through. Kirschman said the school offered in the summer of 2009 to pay for his graduate degree in business, an offer he accepted, and that he still gets some of the same perks as players. Kirschman completed his MBA in Finance.

Charles Hoke, a former Alabama offensive lineman, took a medical scholarship in 2008 because of a shoulder problem, said the choice was left entirely up to him and was based on the many conversations he had with the team's doctors and trainers over the course of his junior year.

Jeramie Griffin tore an anterior cruciate ligament in his knee in August 2009. He said, "I came back in the spring and I was OK." Griffin said that he was surprised football staff told him he had failed a physical. Griffin said, Saban asked him what he wanted to do besides playing football, and that Saban floated the possibility of a medical scholarship and asked if Griffin was interested in student coaching. Griffin said he doesn't contest the results of the physical and said it was "basically my decision" to forgo the rest of his playing career.

Doug Walker, the school's associate athletic director for media relations, said "Decisions about medical disqualifications for student-athletes are made by medical professionals and adhere to the parameters outlined by the NCAA…and the Southeastern Conference."[20]

On September 29, 2010 Coach Saban responded to questions about the Wall Street Journal Article, "We don't make the decision about medicals. I have nothing to do with that. Those are medical decisions made by our medical staff. I think we have one of the finest medical staffs in the country. I don't have any question about the fact every player we have given a medical to, it's been because of the medical opinion of the medical staff," Saban said. "Those guys should not continue to play football because it would put their future in tremendous risk. Those decisions are always made in the best interest of the player. Whether the player agrees with that or not, I can't control. I don't make the decision. They don't make the decision as players. That's why we have a medical staff."[21]
[edit] WSJ Transfer Concerns

On November 25, 2010, the Journal reported that several former Alabama players claim Saban and Alabama lied about their reasons for leaving the school.[3] On August 5, 2009 Saban in a press conference Saban made a statement included was a reference to four players Price Hall, Brandon Fanney, Alonzo Lawrence and Jermaine Preyear. "These guys all did something. It doesn't make them bad people.…These guys didn't do what they were supposed to do here, whether it was for academic reasons or whatever. They're not going to be part of the program."[22] The players told The Wall Street Journal they committed no such violations and that Alabama and Saban had only claimed as much so as to protect the image of their program in the eyes of future recruits.

Prince Hall, a starter and All-American as freshman, had been suspended for the 3rd time during the Spring according to published reports, the last being categorized as indefinite. Brandon Fanney, a 14 game starter from the previous season, had been suspended for rules violations during the Spring.[23]

Preyear, who decided to transfer six months after enrolling during the Spring, said he chose to leave over concerns about playing time. "I don't know any rules I could have broken."

Alonzo Lawrence reasons for transfer were unclear, but according to his high school coach his problems at Alabama "wasn't anything major," and tied it to things like being late to team meetings. Lawrence transferred to Southern Miss before moving on to Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College.[24][25]
[edit] Saban's Exchange with another Reporter

On April 15, 2008, Saban was asked by reporter Ian Rapoport how he was going to handle the numbers and when does he you start to worry about it? Saban replied "I'm not worried about them. It'll all work out. I mean, the whole thing has a solution to every issue. You don't put yourself in a position where you don't know what's coming." Rapoport respond, "So you're not going to tell us?" to which Saban replied "We know how it has to be managed, and it will be managed. It's none of your business. Aiight? And don't give me this stuff about the fans' need to know, because they don't need to know. Don't even ask. Aiight?"[26]
[edit] 2011

In early 2011, after National Signing Day, Saban and the University of Alabama again became the subjects of heavy media criticism after they again appeared to have oversigned. When asked about the appearance of being oversigned during his Signing Day press conference, Saban gave a 431-word response[27] in which he denied being oversigned but refused to clarify the situation by explaining how many scholarship players departed the program after the 2010 season.[28] Further raising questions about Saban and Alabama, Birmingham News journalist Kevin Scarbinsky revealed a few days after Saban's press conference that in numerous requests by the newspaper for the scholarship numbers of public universities in Alabama, the University of Alabama has been the only one to completely redact the numbers for every sport in which it participates.[29]
[edit] LSU and Les Miles

In 2010, Louisiana State University (LSU) and head coach Les Miles were also the subjects of numerous oversigning allegations.[4][30] In August, with his program at the scholarship limit for the year, Miles asked two recruits, Elliot Porter and Cameron Fordham, to wait until January 2011 to receive their previously promised scholarships. (This practice is known as "grayshirting.") Fordham chose to stay with the team, but Porter decided to leave the school. A third player, Houston Bates, had previously been asked to grayshirt and decided not to attend LSU, instead signing with Illinois.[31] In December, ESPN's Outside the Lines broadcast a report in which former LSU quarterback Chris Garrett claimed LSU and Les Miles lied about the circumstances surrounding the school's decision not to renew Garrett's scholarship and Garrett's subsequent departure from LSU.[6]
[edit] South Carolina and Steve Spurrier

In 2011, South Carolina, coached by Steve Spurrier, oversigned by several players. Both Oversigning.com[32] and Rivals.com[33] estimated South Carolina oversigned by 6 players when it signed 32 players in its 2011 class.[34] Additionally, on the day before National Signing Day, South Carolina rescinded offers to two other recruits that had verbally committed to signing with the school. One of the recruits, Lorenzo Mauldin, had been committed to the school for months[35] but learned he would not receive a scholarship offer when South Carolina faxed a notice of the rescinded offer to his high school on the day before Signing Day.[36] Walter Banks, the coach of Jordan Montgomery, the other recruit whose scholarship offer was pulled the day before National Signing Day, told The Wall Street Journal, "I told [South Carolina coaches] this was foul. I didn't have a clue until 18 hours before signing day, and if they say anything else, they're lying."[37] Banks also told The State that South Carolina coaches are "no longer welcome" at his high school (South Lake High School in Groveland, Florida) saying, "I cannot look a kid and their parent in the face and say you can trust what a University of South Carolina coach says."[38] Spurrier admitted to The Wall Street Journal that "what we probably could've done earlier in the recruiting is tell them that this could happen."[37] He later added, "I think on [Feb. 1] we alerted both of them, talked to them and said ‘Hey, I’m sorry. This is where we are. We got all these other commitments.’ We didn’t like doing this.”[38] In late March 2011, Mauldin signed with Louisville saying that he came to believe that South Carolina coaches really didn't want him to qualify anyway.[39]
[edit] 2011 rule change

In June 2011, the SEC presidents and chancellors unanimously passed a new conference rule that prohibits teams from signing more than 25 players to National Letter of Intent from December 1 through May 31. The league's coaches unanimously voted the day before to recommend maintaining the limit of 28

[cuse_man]

Originally Posted by ksturg

Rome, I agree with the overall concept of what you are saying regarding colleges, brands, etc and how they choose to operate. My original point (which I could have made clearer) was in direct reference to Saban who Mulerider was lauding as a great coach and recruiter (Which 100% he is by the way).

I was just stating that he has a competitive advantage over a lot of other programs in the country when it comes to recruiting because of the University that he works for and how they choose to operate. The SEC as a whole has that advantage. Now you could say well those other coaches don't have to work for the schools they do, and I would also agree. However, there are only so many jobs to go around and when he is allowed to sign 10 extra recruits, then take scholarships away from kids that haven't fit the bill well that is an advantage. I mean, he was the one who originally saw talent in the kid and signed him to play, because he doesn't pan out he can basically cut him and get somebody different? Other coaches don't have that luxury (Not a lot do, some other conferences I believe have much stricter rules, allowing only a +2 or +3 scenario), so he has a recruiting advantage over his peers.

I think a better argument would be to just focus on the kids instead of the coaches really ... STUDENT ATHLETES....... the NCAA cares so much about right. Yet coaches bringing them on then releasing them can't be looking out for the STUDENT athlete.

Never really knew much about over signing or took the time to look at it so thanks for the info.