marty schottenheimer

[dave nz]

Have a friend who follows the sport like a hawk and has for a number of years. Actually does NFL for one of the major books.
He believes Schottenheimer should go down in his mind/opinion as one of the most overated NFL coaches ever. Agree or disagree?

[Toronto_Mike]

waiting for rj's response

[Dr. Jack]

Disagree 100%

The guy has proven he can win with a few teams. True he has had no success in playoffs but I wouldn't call him overrated.

[BigFratDaddy]

I wouldnt say hes the most overrated. Probably the most underachieving post season coach though

[rjb1816]

bad in postseason but the teams he took over and turned them around into playoff regulars is the opposite of overrated...in fact i would make the argument that he doesnt get enough credit for the success he had. players love the guy...just choked in the playoffs

[dave nz]

Surely the first and most telling judgement factor for any coach or athlete should be the post season

[rjb1816]

no it shouldnt...thats a dumb argument. that would mean players like dan marino should be put aside for guys like trent dilfer and brad johnson? robert horry must be the greatest basketball player ever besides jordan

[dave nz]

Judged over their whole career and judged with the talent at their disposal in mind. With greater emphasis placed on the post season as opposed to the regular season.

[rjb1816]

completely disagree...when judging an individual you cannot base it on a small sample of games. sure with a coach that has flopped a bunch in the playoffs like marty its a reflection but in a TEAM sport, you have to look at a player's achievements in both regular season and playoffs to get the best comparison

[dave nz]

Where did I say base it on a small sample of games?

[rjb1816]

Originally Posted by dave nz

Where did I say base it on a small sample of games?

how many playoff games in a player's career compared to regular season? In football, for the average player its probably what 5-7? That's not even half of one regular season

[dave nz]

Yeah fair point, but we are talking at Marty here, he has 14 playoff games (not too small a sample) and has gone 1-13 I believe. That isn't bad that is abysmal.

[Slammer]

I wouldn't discredit his accomplishments because of a poor playoff record. 15 to 20 playoff games out of a sample of over 300 total (he's coached for 20 some-odd years) is a very small sample size.

Also, a poor playoff record automatically means consistently taking your teams to the playoffs, and that in itself is a notable accomplishment. There are few out there who can even do that.

And I doubt he is 1-13, he's won at least four or five times in the post-season that I can think of.

[rjb1816]

some of the losses he has had, there has been terrible bad luck. i think he's a very good coach but much like the red sox curse and other stuff like that, the playoff losing hangs over the team in the postseason

[dave nz]

Originally Posted by Slammer

I wouldn't discredit his accomplishments because of a poor playoff record. 15 to 20 playoff games out of a sample of over 300 total (he's coached for 20 some-odd years) is a very small sample size.

Also, a poor playoff record automatically means consistently taking your teams to the playoffs, and that in itself is a notable accomplishment. There are few out there who can even do that.

And I doubt he is 1-13, he's won at least four or five times in the post-season that I can think of.

Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing that he is/was a poor coach. All I'm saying is the playoffs seperate the men from the boys. He can never go down as a great coach for his abysmal playoff record and conservative gameplans that backfired in the playoffs.

Some of his era was before my time and I don't neccassarly share my friends strong view and its not a subject I know really well or have followed closely. I've just been playing devils advocate and getting a debate going

BTW if anyone has what they believe to be his correct playoff record I would be interested to know.